After Years of Sobriety She|He Won’t Forgive or Forget
“After years of sobriety she [or he] still won’t forgive or forget! What can I do? I’m so tired of being the bad-guy!“
I’ve often heard this from people in recovery. They believe they’re doing “everything right.” They’ve made their amends and walked on eggshells and given in to their loved one time and again to make up for what all happened before. But it S T I L L doesn’t seem to be enough. That elephant in the living room is still there, only this time, it’s purple.
So why is it so hard to get their forgiveness and the sense that “it” is really in the past?
This post attempts to answer your question,
Why Is It That After Years of Sobriety She/He Won’t Forgive or Forget
Here are three key reasons:
The first is recognizing there is NO WAY you’ll ever be able to fully understand what it was like to deal with your behaviors – the things you said and did, the lies you told, the words you sliced and diced, perhaps the DUI or two you got and put your family through, the insane circular arguments, the emotional / verbal / physical abuse, the on and off parenting, perhaps there was infidelity, the wasted money, the lost friendships, the lost hours and endless worry about where you were, if you were coming home, what kind of shape you’d be in when you did, the shame. In other words, all the things you said and did or didn’t do while you were active in your severe substance use disorder, aka alcoholism or addition.
The second is that your loved one still does NOT understand the brain disease of severe substance use disorder, aka alcoholism or addition. Without this understanding, it’s about impossible to believe it wasn’t really you but rather the brain changes caused by the ethyl alcohol chemicals chemically and structurally changing your brain (in the case of alcohol). These changes made your brain more vulnerable to the key risks factors for developing alcoholism (genetics, social environment, childhood trauma, mental illness and early use). And it wasn’t just the risk factors, it was the brain mapping around the characteristics of this particular brain disease (cravings, tolerance, physical dependence and loss of control). Without this understanding, it’s about impossible to understand that as long as you used ANY amount, you would continue those awful behaviors that your brain had mapped when active in its severe alcohol use disorder. [These same concepts apply to other drugs and severe drug use disorders.]
The third is that your loved one has likely not gotten the help they need to heal their own brains – their own physical and emotional health – of the impacts of secondhand drinking | secondhand drugging-related toxic stress. Secondhand drinking refers to the negative impacts of your drinking. [Similar concepts apply to other or other drug use behaviors.] The kind of help that allows them to truly let go of their resentments and hurt feelings, to truly know and believe in their heart of hearts that you are the person you are – the person in recovery – the person who has every intention and the absolute capability to live a “normal” life and not hurt you in that way, again.
Until a person understands the disease, they can only assume the person who is abusing drugs or alcohol does not have the willpower, the love for their family members, the integrity or the whatever else they consider to be the underlying reason for their loved one not changing. Thus they have no reason to trust your recovery because it makes no sense you didn’t do this “recovery thing” long before things got so bad.
But, there are…
2 Additional Reasons Loved Ones Can’t Forgive After Years of Sobriety
The first is that you have stopped drinking but are not fully treating your disease. You may be sober in the sense you’re not drinking (or using other drugs), but you have not treated/dealt with the reasons you drank or used in the first place. So in essence, you may be behaving in much the same way – just without alcohol / drug. What are these reasons? Untreated childhood trauma, mental health disorders (anxiety, depression…) and your brain mapping around toxic stress as a result of trauma, to name a few. For example, a 12 step program does not treat trauma nor mental health disorders. To better understand what it takes to fully treat substance use disorders, check out NIDA’s Principles of Effective Treatment. Check out my article, Pay Particular Attention to Mental Illness and Childhood Trauma When Treating Addiction.
The second is that it may not be “just” the drinking. There may have been other behaviors unrelated to drinking that have not been addressed or changed and are unsafe or unhealthy for your loved one or your children to live or have a relationship with.
What Can Be Done – How Can She/He Get to the Place of Forgiveness and Letting Go
Given there is no way to provide the depth of coverage an answer to this complex question deserves, I’ve highlighted a few things that ALL concerned can do to come to a place of forgiveness and letting go:
Understand the disease of severe substance use disorder: how it’s developed, the key risk factors, its characteristics and the crippling stigma and shame that surrounds it.- Understand what it takes to effectively treat it and that recovery is real and 100% possible thanks to the brain’s incredible capacity to heal, to rewire, to create new brain maps of thoughts, feelings and behaviors.
- Understand Secondhand Drinking | Secondhand Drugging – what happened to your family members and friends while coping with your drinking or other drug use behaviors. Understand exactly what your loved ones have been through — their experiences; their lost years as they tried to forgive, help, keep things going, suffer in isolation and shame; the very real, serious toll on their physical and emotional health and quality of life (see image to right).
And I URGE you and your loved ones to read my latest book, “10th Anniversary Edition If You Loved Me, You’d Stop! What you really need to know when your loved one drinks too much.” (It’s equally applicable to those whose loved one’s behaviors change when they use other drugs, as well.)
This is NOT about selling books. It’s about sharing the research and insights I’ve gathered this past 18 years from my deep-dive delve into the science of ALL that I’ve shared in this post. A dive that started when a loved one entered a residential treatment program for alcoholism. It was the year of my 50th birthday and the year I finally started my secondhand drinking recovery journey after four decades of coping with various loved ones’ alcohol use disorders.
The first half explains alcohol use disorders (drinking problems) – how they’re developed and treated and what long-term recovery requires. In the case of alcohol abuse, for example, it’s possible to learn to “re-drink,” but in the case of alcoholism, it must be total abstinence from alcohol, yet in both cases, there are other brain healing aspects necessary in order to address “why” a person finds themselves drinking to these extents in the first place (e.g., trauma, anxiety, depression, social environment…). The second half explains what happens to family members and friends and what they can do to help their loved ones, and as importantly, what they can do to take back control of their physical and emotional health and the quality of their lives regardless of their loved one’s drinking or recovery. The book comes in both paperback and Kindle (which can be read on an iPad or other eReader device). With the Kindle format, you’re able to get it immediately, which may be helpful for right now, and it allows you to read it without anyone knowing, which may also be helpful.
Lastly, Consider a Different Take on “Forgiveness”
For myself (on the family side) and one of my loved ones (on the severe alcohol use disorder side), “forgiveness” was not about excusing what happened. It was about “letting go” of there being a different outcome possible. It was accepting that both of us were doing the best we could with what we knew at the time. And that was a big, fat zero. We just didn’t know how to do any of it differently until we understood the science behind the reasons I’ve shared above.
Bottom Line
No one sets out to develop the disease of severe alcohol or other drug use disorder and no one sets out to cope with it in unhealthy ways. So this post is all about gaining understanding, and from that place, finding oneself able to move to the place of forgiving and forgetting if possible.
Please know I offer free phone calls to answer questions people may have. There is no charge. If you’d like to schedule a call, please send me an email to lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com.
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Lisa Frederiksen
Latest posts by Lisa Frederiksen (see all)
- Does a Loved One Have to Hit Bottom? - November 20, 2022
- Resources for Parents of Children with Substance Use and Mental Disorders - October 18, 2022
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Hi ,
Al-Anon’s book The Dilemma of The Alcoholic Marriage illustrates but a false dilemma. The true dilemma is marriage itself whoever to. It has little if anything to do with an alcoholic. That book is sexist and outmoded. It should have been discontinued a long time ago. It should have never been written in the first place. There is but 10-12% men in Al-Anon Family Groups, no wonder why. I owe my survival to Al-Anon; but I believe AFG will disappear before men are equal to women – at least in number – in that “wonderful” fellowship.
Also much more is known today about mental illness (schizophrenia, depression, addiction, etc.) than at the time of the two cofounders. The pamphlet Do You Doubt Your Sanity says nothing about neither sanity, nor insanity and less yet about substance-induced psychosis – mental drunkenness. It is an empty pamphlet like many other useless Al-Anon pamphlets. Let’s keep it simple. There is much too much useless Al-Anon literature that speaks about anything but the real thing and that keeps members deluded about the real thing: their own mental illness.
If Al-Anon literature does not reflect today’s reality, then what? If his/her/their alcohol or drug abuse is your obsession (schizophrenia-related obsessive-compulsive disorder), try AFG and hurry on to more important matters. See Schizophrenia and Related Disorders Alliance of America (http://www.sardaa.org/)
In short, any literature but Al-Anon’s. It’s a love-it-or-leave-it matter.
I have to tell you, with tears in my eyes, I am so thankful for your website and all the information, and how beautifully you explain everything. You are able to put words that make sense to something that by it’s very nature makes no sense. I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have loved ones in deep pain. I will be sharing your website and all the great additional resources you mention.
I will be back for more…this is my new home away from home (online). I just had to say thank you.
Maria
Thank you so much, Maria, and CONGRATULATIONS on your recovery!! I’m so glad you’re finding helpful information on my site. You and your loved ones may find help in my latest book. It brings together many of the key points I try to write about or have guest authors write about my website. http://bitly.com/2kNoVLz Take care and thanks again for your comment! Lisa
Agree. I am appalled that this writer could even think for one second that victims of child abuse, child sexual assault and raped daughters, girlfriends and wives should even CONSIDER “forgiving” their rapist, “understanding” it “was all the acohol” and having a relationship with that person because they are sober now. It was not just booze. The person who does that has evil in their soul.
No way my family is getting past that. Let them back in our lives and give them access to my kids? The language I want to add to NO can’t becprinted here. Whst kind of parent would I be?
Addicts continue to take after they are sober. They expect support and forgiveness. They want their victims to believe it was the disease, not them. It’s ALWAYS about the addict. The family member who cut them off is “diagnosed” with their addiction as well, since they won’t “forgive” or let the addict back into their life. The addict is hugged and comforted while the person who cut them off is punished, or hounded to go into a program for family members, where they will be “diagnosed” and “treated” as having the problem, too. It’s another con on the family….make them believe they are part of the problem and “need” resolution,,,,,which is usually about “Forgiving”…..
Thank you for commenting, DM. I was of a very similar belief when one of my loved ones entered residential treatment for alcoholism in 2003, and I was told I was an enabler and codependent and that I needed help. It infuriated me and made no sense. In time… based on the research I’ve been doing ever since and through my own therapy and recovery work, it’s not so much that we’re part of the problem as we’ve been deeply affected by the problem. The affect on us is chronic stress and chronic stress makes a person physically and emotionally sick and destroys the quality of one’s life. If you’d like to talk about this, feel free to give me a call (no charge) at 650-362-3026 (PST) or send me an email at lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com.
Addicts seem to be selfish even recovering ones. Everything is about them. While AA can be a good program I don’t think it helps long term, as the addict is always told to put themselves first. This selfish behaviour is met with resentment from the partner as they had hoped they would be getting a better version of their husband/wife back, but in reality nothing has changed apart from they don’t drink alcohol, all the other things you hated are still there. You and your children are still second best.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Julia. I’d be happy to talk with you about your experiences and possible suggestions that may be of help to you. If that’s something that makes sense, feel free to send me an email at lisaf@breakingthecycles.com, and we can set up a phone call – no charge.
I’ve been sober 6 1/2 years and just now my kids were supportive and now it’s all coming back to shame and the things I did when I was drinking I have apologized to them several times I don’t know what to do and I don’t know how to handle it.
It makes me feel like I will never be forgiven
Hi Julie – I’d be happy to schedule a phone call to discuss this with you (no charge). If you’d like to do that, please send me an email to lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com.
Why does it matter if you are “totally forgiven”? The fact that it could happen again never leaves a loved one’s mind. You should be thankful they love you and are still in your life. Stop worrying about being forgiven. Think about what they went though. If they are still there, they love you.!! Be thankful
Julia I completely agree! I am the mother of an addict. She has gotten sober, but I still don’t want to see her. She put us through 17 years of sheer hell—5 rehabs, a methadone clinic, having our house robbed, taking our grandson to her drug dealers house (we now have custody of him), jail, totaling 3 cars, and the list goes on. I cannot forgive her and I don’t want that dark, chaotic energy in my life, neither does my husband, son, or grandson. I told her she has put us through 17 years of trauma and we can’t be her support system. I get why addicts/alcoholics think we “normies” are heartless, but we just don’t want to revisit the pain they put us through. And like you said in your post; they continue to be so needy. She always calls for money and rides. Gee, why wouldn’t we be thrilled to see her.
Alcoholics seem to think, “Aw, come on! I did what you wanted! I quit using, and I’m sorry for what I did. I’ve apologized. So why can’t we leave this behind and move on?” Ok. They got treatment. Yeah, they probably are telling the truth when they say how sorry they are.
What they just won’t get is that “sorry” is not always enough.
Sometimes the person has done too much damage to get back in our lives. Their addiction is still present in they want what they want, and why won’t we give it to them?
You can be really sorry but that just doesn’t mean you get your family back.
“Why won’t they forgive? What more can I do?”
Nothing.
It’s like a divorce. Sometimes there is not going to be a Back Together Again. Too much was said, too much was done, and can the family move past all of it? Do they want to try? Is it worth the effort?
Having my parents back in my life will not benefit me in any way. I have a responsibility to protect myself from more harm. As a child I had no choice. Now I do.
I would always be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Maybe this sounds bad, but what’s in it for me anyway? There is no relationship and why build one when I have built my own family out of my friend circle. There is just no place anymore. We have nothing for each other.
Part of recovery should be understanding that you did too much damage, your kids have moved on, so rebuild your life and move on too.
Sounds like you’ve dealt with this maturely and without resentment. Good work.
Yes I feel this to my core. The addict receives all the glory when they become sober while the family is left to just figure things out. I hear “you must be so proud of him” and I am but underneath it all I’m angry and resentful that he has support and understanding. While my kids and I were left to pick up all the pieces.
I’m one of the nonforgivers.
This article did not help me at all because it’s underwritten by the premise that drunks are the victims. Which is boloney. Society today loves to call everything a brain problem. Being a drunk in your mind and others is not a choice but a result of the poor drunks brain not cooperating with reason for a thousand biochemical reasons.
This thinking makes drunks victims and their families culprits. You do a great disservice to humanity by propogating the myth that drunks are the victims. By the same logic so are rapists and murderers.
Good point. You are not the culprit, but a victim of an experience equal to being raped and murdered. I hope in your case justice prevailed, which I guess if I follow the addict was ignored by society while you entered a treatment center to get the help and care you are desperate for. Have no fear, a solid twelve step program can do wonders for all that self-pity and resentment. There is hope yet!
I agree with the person above! I am the victim and I have faithfully believed in and supported my husband through all of his alcoholic issues and recovery. He has made endless amends and never sticks to them. I was enabling him and not even realizing it until he hit a vehicle and got arrested and an OWI… huge eye opener …. I thought after he went through recovery and AA he would come back to me and our marriage in that would resemble the wonderful 15 years we had before hand. Well that hasn’t happened and I am tired of waiting for him. I have given him ample time to heal… seek help and move on. I don’t hold it against him …. I am lonely and at my wits end. He doesn’t even hear me or see me some days he so absorbed into his life… which is work and back home … but he claims work sucks so he shuts down… he claims he’s tired and passes out on me at night with out as much of a kiss goodnight. I have talked until I am blue in the face and little change. I do not ask for much but I am the victim. I want our life back… is there even a thin chance that can happen???? I can’t afford a counselor to talk to… he’s had numerous ones to talk to . our insurance has changed and I can’t afford to see one. now… no excuses I just want my real husband back….any help out there???? Thanks for listening
I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve been going through. Feel free to email me at lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com to arrange a phone call (there’s no charge). Lisa
I agree with the person above who said the recovering alcoholic gets the support and praise while their victims are berated for not getting with their program, forgiving and rejoining the big happy family. DOES IT NEVER OCCUR TO THESE PEOPLE AND THEIR THERAPISTS THAT MAYBE THEIR OFFENSE WAS TOO SEVERE???
Addicts expect to be forgiven and relationships mended just because they’re so sorry now. Those they injured are expected to fall in line and accept them back into their lives. Part of therapy should include understanding that their victims may not want to reconcile and honor that decision instead of expecting to receive absolution and acceptance.
I cut my abusive parent off and moved on with my life. I am now the bad guy because I won’t accept apologies and re-admit him to my life. The constant barrage of letters, phone calls, unwanted attempts to visit and pressure from other relatives to go to reunification therapy are revictimizing me and my own family.
If he cleaned up his life, great, but I Do. Not. Want. A. Relationship. With. This. Person. I don’t want to go to Al-Anon, a support group or family therapy. I don’t want him around my kids. Move on and go away. I don’t want his issues, recovered or not, back in my life.
Please stop telling the addict’s family members that we owe them a clean slate and declining to give it means we’re bad people or who need to be fixed.
Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your experiences with this, Tim. And you’re right – it is no one else’s business whether a person wants to “forgive” an addict/alcoholic family member whose behaviors were so abusive. Something most people don’t realize is the experiences of everyone within a family with the alcoholic/addict is NOT the same — yet everyone’s experience of what it was like is “true,” because it is what happened to them and is true for them. You have to do what is right for YOU. If you’d ever like to talk further, send me an email at lisaf@breakingthecycles.com, and we can arrange a time to speak (no charge). I wish you all the best, Lisa
Nobody is forcing you to go do any of that. Nobody. Who. Ever. Is. Making. You. Read. This. Post. You. Should. Know. You. Dont. Have. To.
You. Can’t. Read. Can. You? I. Said. That. man. IS. Trying. To. Force. Me. To. Have. A Relationship.
I am sorry to report that I was forced to take legal action against my estranged father. His constant barrage of phone calls, drop-ins at my house and showing up at my jon were bad enough, but when he finally realized we weren’t going to crack, he turned on my children. There was nothing I coukd do about him showing up in public places and watching us, like my son’s ball games, but he crossed the line when he approached them twice and tried to give them things, then followed my son and tried to lure him into his car.
We now have a restraining order. I will never trust him again and won’t allow him to poison my own children.
You’re not a bad person for not wanting a relationship with your alcoholic loved one. But without forgiveness, be it from afar or in a relationship again, you will never be able to truly heal. That’s just the simple fact, the simple bottom line, and simply up to you.
Your alcoholic loved one is frantic for you to heal for your own good. Maybe just think about taking a moment to communicate with them one time to let them know that you have healed, and you have forgiven them from afar, and the best way they can continue to allow that is to stop attempting communications.
Such anger though, clearly no healing has happened for you. Now you’re going to be angry at your alcoholic loved one for your denial too.
Whether or not you can see it, or whether or not you wanted to be, you were affected by your alcoholic loved one. Allowing those affects to become irreparable is certainly your right. For THEIR own good I hope your alcoholic loved one moves on soon from continued attempts with you.
Normies will NEVER get it. Never.
We alcoholics actively in recovery and actively working some sort of recovery program and lifestyle, are not victims. You misunderstand, but that’s to be expected considering what your alcoholic loved ones may have put you through.
The attempts to obtain forgiveness…those are not cons or tricks or attempts at manipulation. We realize the damage we have done. We realize the pain we caused. We FEEL that pain. In sobriety, we feel it intensely. You think it was hard watching your alcoholic loved one? Hard being on the receiving end of it all? Try living it. You think it was easy, or of no consequence because we don’t remember? Wrong. Do you have any concept of what it feels like to see the people you love most in the entire world in excruciating pain, damaged and broken in sometimes irreparable ways, and to know YOU caused it? No I imagine not because you clearly lack the necessary empathy to be able to do so.
What you perceive as manipulation or a con is just someone who loves you doing the best they can to right all the wrongs. Even when we know we can’t ever possibly right those wrongs, we will humiliate ourselves endlessly anyway trying to do so. We are so desperate to ease your pain, and we know forgiveness is the only way to accomplish that. And that forgiveness is for YOU, not us. We want YOU to heal, as we are. I need my loved ones to forgive me because I need for THEM to release it so they can heal. Whether they accept me back in their lives or not. And the reason we know this forgiveness is key for YOU, not us, is because of AA. AA does not coddle victims. It makes you take a very honest evaluation of the horrible, gut wrenching shit you’ve done and say, I did that. Sometimes loved ones can accept the amends. Sometimes they can’t. Now you’re going to castigate us for even trying?
That blame, while understandable to a degree, is misplaced. That’s your 2nd hand alcoholism going untreated. If you cannot find the capacity to forgive your alcoholic loved one for your OWN good, then get out of their life. Don’t stick around and punish them. The worst thing you can do for someone going through a transformation is treat them as if they were the same person as before. Don’t deny someone the beautiful gift of change because you’ve decided we aren’t deserving, or because you have a need to inflict pain, the way it was inflicted on you.
Sobriety is not just abstinence. True sobriety is a healing of the soul, admitting what we’ve done, apologizing and taking responsibility, and seeking forgiveness for YOUR healing. It’s the first selfless act we’ve done in a long time.
Alcoholism is a disease. Plain and simple, no question. That should not be the debate. And you Normies need to understand it’s not a disease of willpower. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Its a disease of instinct…of survival. It lives in the same part of your brain that tells you to breathe.
Calling alcoholism a disease is NOT free pass. We alcoholics in recovery don’t want any free passes. Just like with diabetes, or cancer…a diagnosis actually puts the onus back on the alcoholic, it does not take it away. There’s an expectation of recovery that the diagnosis establishes. Now a treatment plan is made, and must be followed, and it’s the responsibility of the addict to follow that plan. When they do, recovery, though difficult and NOT guaranteed (as with any disease), is possible.
Recovery is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Recovering addicts are some of the strongest, grittiest, most honest, selfless people I know. Let them have their transformation and be free of their torment, or get out of their way to do so. Your anger and the message you spread is a disservice to your recovering addict and the recovering community, twisting sincerity into selfishness. Alcoholics in recovery are about keeping our side of the street clean. Have you heard that? If you don’t want to achieve forgiveness for YOUR own healing and peace, that’s your problem and you should hold yourself responsible for that, not us. You can keep your side of the street dirty if you like. It’s then up to us to accept you are not in a place to accept our amends, and we must move on to the next person. If you are then offended that we “gave up” and didn’t spend the rest of our life trying to make things up to you, you must understand we moved on for you as well. We seek amends only if it’s not harmful to the other person to do so. If we see it’s becoming harmful to you to keep trying, we have to move on.
Recovering addicts are neat people; walking, talking miracles. We are achieving recovery because we didn’t give up before the miracle. I pray for the softening of your hearts so that you can stay for the miracle too.
Thank you for your encouraging words and a glimmer of hope.
You’re welcome – I’m so glad you found it helpful.
All I can say is WOW I feel every word you just said. PM me @ amandabennett9280@gmail.com please I would love to talk to you.
Hi Amanda, – please send me an email to lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com, and we can arrange a phone call. ~Lisa
THANK YOU- never heard this explained to me. I really got it, a true understanding- I am mother of recovered alcoholic daughter & alcoholic son that died. Grandmother to daughter’s daughter who will not forgive her mother. Daughter has been sober 15 years and been in her daughters life as often as my granddaughter would allow. My recovered alcoholic daughter and I the grandma were not invited to my granddaughters wedding. Hurt beyond I knew possible. Going through the grief process, but you helped me see the light. Dear God let us stay for the miracle , we might not be able to see my daughter becoming a grandma and me a great grandma as my granddaughter in now pg. Bless you for sharing, it is wonderful. Time to live in spite of it all. Love Linda
My husband of 35 years left stop talking to his five kids for no reason they were the center of his world he hurt them so much he moved in with a girl that is his drinking buddy and met all new friends then he went into the ICU for 10 days and almost died and the kids and I stood by his side when he got sober he up and went back to his girlfriends house God knows what he’s doing now we are getting divorced I’m very hurt he was verbally abusive and then started to get physically abusive it’s not all about the alcoholic and the disease. I don’t care what you say
Here’s the thing…. If you get into a car accident with another car. AA teaches you it wasn’t your fault you had a disease. Us “Normies” in the other car actually understand that and are very empathic… thats why many of us stay with you.
The issue is that its great that you and AA are trying to fix your own car and you feel real real bad about destroying our car as well, and we do believe you do feel bad about destroying our car and that its the disease. But we are still left with a non working car and we “Normies” aren’t allowed to express our frustration about not having a working car or else we are called compassionless. We “Normies” get called selfish if we want to fix our car 1st and even get called selfish if we want to fix them simultaneously while helping fix your car.
Calling us unempathetic when we are wary that the addict says they are there to help but ends taking a bat to the car time and time again is MASSIVE MANIPULATION to guilt us to stay. Us “Normies” are told it is our fault for not being able forgive the addict after the accident and after the theft of tools, parts, and time as we are trying to repair our own car.
Thats great that your side of the street is clean… but how about putting in the effort to help clean up the “Normies” side of the street. I know “make amends” is one of the steps.. but making amends is more than just saying sorry, its more than saying here’s money for a new tire, its more than helping to clean up for 5 mins before you get tired. Because us “Normies” are exhausted from shouldering everything to give you time and help to clean up your side of the street. Our hearts are not hard.. they are tired. Lets not also forget if we “Normies” get back on the road with a broken down car that sometimes breaks again and causes car accidents with other innocent cars. Although not technically the addict’s fault because the “Normie” shouldn’t have been driving a broken car, they are now stressed and tired from helping you fix your car, fixing their own car, and helping to fix the other innocents persons car. other innocent’s persons car.
You did not move on to clean up the next mess “for us” you left because it was too hard for you. You moved on to the next mess because that one might be easier to clean and so you can feel better about yourself and feel like a hero. Thats great and all that you are sorry to what you did to people. Its great that you at least give an attempt to right wrongs. We understand it’s a disease. We understand your life is hard. But to tell us that our dirty side of the street is our problem is just dismissive and to tell us we have hard hearts, lack empathy, and uncompassionate…. That is just plain selfish and manipulative.
I know I am late to this, Maria, however I’m need you to know how enlightening and encouraging this comment is. Thank you.
Wow. I really needed to hear this right now. My partner/friend has been an absolute sh*t alcoholic for the past few years and has finally quit but I am pissed at her. Your words really helped me see it from the alcoholic side (I DO want to forgive and I DO want to move on bc that’s all I can do now).
So- thank you.
It’s been several months since I saw this. I should have expected this kind of reply. Maria, you probably were not the sort of abuser my father is. I’m talking severe physical abuse – broken bones were involved twice – and beatings that kept us home from school because of the bruises. My mother enabled him and forced us to lie about how our injuries occurred. She wanted us to join her in pretending nothing was wrong, and forgive, forgive, forgive. Forgivenss was used to silence us because that means never talking about the offense again. And you wonder why I have a problem with forgiveness???
He gets forgiveness and is admired for getting treatment. His children are punished for not forgiving him, let bygones be bygones, etc. He cries big tears for everyone, swearing he will make it up to us but we won’t give him the chance. He doesn’t understand that he can’t. The physical abuse, emotional cruelty and fear cannot be made up for. He will never, ever be the bad guy in any of this. The abuse was our fault for making him angry. Now we are bad people for not letting him back in our lives. OUr fault again
I went to therapy to deal with the damage. It took years to stop having nightmares and feel safe. Now he’s back and badgering me, and unleashed his flying monkeys on me to force a relationship because that’s what he wants. Again, The only difference is that he’s sober now.
I’m glad he got his life together, but I don’t want him in mine. I appreciate your telling me what a horrible person I am for not letting him back in my life, and for not allowing him to be near and influence my own children and wife.
Forgiveness is different things to many people. To me it’s a gift given, or not, after someone has expressed remorse and apologized. I disagree that this is owed to the person. Yes, I’m sure I will need to be forgiven for something someday – but I will take responsibility for what I did, not consider it an entitlement or an obligation. I feel that each family member is responsible for their own healing, and if they find it by cuttting the abuser from their life, that should be expected. It’s called facing consequences.
As a recovering alcoholic / addict I see the need that on one hand, yes, forgiveness is crucial. In regards to Tim, the severity is of the most major kind. Certain offenses are impossible to forgive, Maria. That’s God’s job.
I never inflicted bruises, black eyes, broken bones etc on the people I love but as I found out, I didn’t have to. Get it, Maria? Words are very damaging also. Case in point—my aunt confided in me once something she said to my mother which was rude. (my mother’s deceased) In a drunken rage I let loose on her and cut her down to pieces, ripping off the healing and exposing all the guilt she felt over having said it. I reopened the wound and let her have it, and later after getting sober, yep you guessed it—-regret it bigtime. The truth is my mother was a forgiving person and would have not held a grudge against her sister. It was ME. And ME ALONE who CHOSE to be an asshole. Sure, I would be lying if I said I didn’t want her forgiveness. But (at least) at this point, that’s a pipedream. So whose fault is it? Hers for being hurt and angry, (and rightfully so) or me for being the prick in the first place?
And, that doesn’t even scratch the surface considering what my wife dealt with me disappearing for hours on end, once an entire day that ended with me getting arrested for public intoxication. A week later, I got arrested for DUI. The DUI was later plead down to a reckless, but still, my behavior was inexcusable. In 28-day treatment I learned that just one word describes me when I drink and use: d-i-r-t-b-a-g.
So maybe I’m not a dirtbag today, but that still doesn’t erase all the dirtbaggy things I said and did. What’s done is done, and if I could go back and prevent it, yes absolutely. Those I wronged will always have a right to be wary. I could go on & on about the two jobs I lost due to being unreliable, the lies I told, the money spent on booze & drugs…..but I won’t. And one more thing, Maria, have you ever thought that maybe forgiving someone too soon would only be condoning the behavior that was so awful?
I can only go forward from here, and I don’t have control over others forgiving me or holding a grudge. If they choose the former, then I consider it luck and a blessing. If it’s the latter—-well, like the old saying goes: “gotta pay the piper.”
Hello…I seek out reading in many places for insight. My daughter is going on six years clean of meth use (this time). She is going on 42 and the cycle of addiction has been in play since she was 21. She has a daughter that is now 21 that my husband and I have raised since she was in 2nd grade. She just can’t forgive her mom and prefers not to have any type of relationship with her. Why? My daughter has gone through a very tough rehab program that was over a year; inpatient and sober living. She has held a great job and progressed in it for 5.5 years. She has lived in her own apartment, paid her own bills, and raised her credit to lease a vehicle for the past 5+ years to present. However during her sobriety, she has other mental issues she is not getting help for. Her anger, mood swings, and very vocal opinions. Since her behaviors is not consistent, my grand-daughter has unfortunately experienced interaction with her mother at a toxic level with arguments being very escalated and hurtful to both. My daughter also believes her sobriety is at a healthy place and she stopped going to NA or AA meetings in about 4 years and feels they are depressing to be a part of. I know our relationship with her is not 100% the greatest, but as the mom I have forgiven her and moved on. My grand-daughter however cannot because of my explanation above. My grand-daughter is open to therapy but has not set up an appointment yet, although reads much on the topic online. I am going to therapy so I can be in a healthy place to cope with this relationship that I so wish would heal for them. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you!
Hi Gina,
I’m so glad you’ve reached out. It’s best if we have a phone or Zoom call – there is no charge – as typically one answer leads to more questions. Just send me an email to lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com, and we can arrange a time.
In the meantime, you may want to order my latest book, “10th Anniversary Edition If You Loved Me, You’d Stop! What you really need to know when your loved one drinks too much.” The first half explains alcohol use disorders – how they’re developed and treated and what long-term recovery requires. In the case of alcohol abuse, for example, it’s possible to learn to “re-drink,” but in the case of alcoholism, it must be total abstinence from alcohol, yet in both cases, there are other brain healing aspects necessary in order to address “why” a person finds themselves drinking to these extents in the first place (e.g., trauma, anxiety, depression, social environment…). [The information shared in this book applies to other drug use disorders, as well.] The second half of the book explains what happens to family members and friends and what they can do to take back control of their physical and emotional health and the quality of their lives. The book comes in both paperback and Kindle (or other eReader formats). Here’s the link, https://www.amazon.com/10th-Anniversary-Loved-Youd-Stop-ebook-dp-B087D5ZKJV/dp/B087D5ZKJV/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=
Regardless of whether you order or read the book, please feel free to send me an email so we can talk by phone or Zoom.
Take care,
Lisa
I am married to an amazing man who was an alcoholic for 23 years. He is 13 years sober and forgiving him was the best thing I could do for myself and for him. Our marriage is blessed and because of his strong support system, I believe he will continue to say no to alcohol the rest of his life although I know he still struggles with the desire and temptation from time to time. I have had the pleasure of watching him humble himself and ask for forgivingness from so many broken relationships that he caused. It is not easy for him or for the person. He has been able to reestablish relationships with his kids and family. It took me about 4 years of his sobriety to truly forgive him. I wish I would have done it sooner but I understand how difficult it is for many people.
I am honored to be his wife and be on this journey with him. Forgiveness is a beautiful thing.
How D Barber? How do I fully forgive? How did you do it? My husband came out of rehab in Jan of this year. He has been working the program and has a great sponsor. I go to al-anon meetings, therapy with an individual counselor, group therapy for families with his rehab center , I pray daily and read furiously to understand the disease. I still feel so wounded and broken I find it hard to get out of bed some days. I love my husband. I want our marriage to work. I want to forgive it all for myself and for him. It just doesn’t seem to be happening and I don’t know why. He hasn’t apologized to me and I realize he may not be at that step yet. I’m being as patient and supportive as I can but the pain and sadness can be overwhelming.
I am sorry I am just now seeing this.
How have things changed for you and your husband over the past 2 years?
I think forgiveness for me was trying to see him the way God sees him. It’s definitely not easy but I think seeing him put in the work finally, had helped me want to start putting back in the work as well.
My husband is “sober” for the past 10 years. I say three years sober, 10 years not drinking. Regardless, what he put me through for the past 17 years is reprehensible. He recently made his amends to me and I found it extraordinarily selfish and it also CONFIRMED things that I suspected but never knew were true. While he actively is working on his sobriety, what he did to me and the family in the past is indelibly marked on our lives and built how we interact with him. He is convinced that he is a better person and feels horrible about what he did to us. I find that he is still very selfish and when called out on it blames it on his “alcoholic brain”. He is now threatening to move out unless I can forgive him for his past because he can’t chase ghosts. I say to him, you helped build what is in front of you today so excuse me if I don’t see fit to forgive what has only changed about 50%.
Hi Sweener,
Thank you for reaching out and sharing your experience. I offer free phone calls to help individuals find answers. If you’d like to schedule one, please send me an email at lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com. You may also want to read my latest book — the first half covers drinking problems (e.g., alcohol abuse or alcoholism) and what it takes to effectively treat and recover from one. The second half explains what happens to family members and what they can do to take back control of their physical and emotional health and the quality of their lives. The book comes in both paperback and Kindle (which can be read on an iPad or other eReader device). With the Kindle format, you’re able to get it immediately, which may be helpful for right now, and it allows you to read it without anyone knowing, which may also be helpful. Here’s the link to the Amazon version, https://www.amazon.com/10th-Anniversary-Loved-Youd-Stop/dp/0981684483
Let me know if you’d like to schedule a free phone call,
Lisa
That’s what my father does. It was all the liquor, not him. Nothing was his fault, even when he was sober. Even when he apologizes, he doesn’r.
He’s enlisted other relatives and family members in his manipulative games. The man is a malignant troll and I will never feel safe around him. I feel I have a moral obligation not to let him near my children knowing the harm he is capable of inflicting.
I don’t want my kids exposed to lies, broken promises, manipulation, misplaced guilt or, God forbid, the violence.
I have a restraining order, but the old fear is back. If it were not for covid I would consider moving us away.
My head knows everything that’s said about forgiving my husbands recovering alcoholic, drug addict is true. I have.
I have forgiven her but that doesn’t mean I have to allow her in our home or in my life. Will I have to attend family functions she is present at? Sure. Do I want her to be well, healthy and clean? Of course.
I am just her step mother. Her mother is a mess too, caused a lot of her problems. I did more for my husbands daughter than any other family member did so in my heart I know I did my part and my role is done.
I have been to therapy to deal with the trauma I suffered through all the dysfunction, lies, stealing, DUI’s, one she was arrested in front of our home with 4 jurisdictions of law enforcement who tracked her here, because she was driving drunk on the wrong side of the road. Humiliating, we haven’t lived here that long.
I had to testify on behalf of her child in court. Did I have to watch my husband enable her for years? Yes. Bring her in and out of our home? Yes. The final straw when she fell in our pool in front of my daughter and her small children, our Grandchildren. I had to jump in and rescue her because she was so drunk she couldn’t lift her head. Promises were and have been made to me that have been broken and I have been chastised because I “can’t handle it.” I need to “ Get over it.”
I can’t handle it, and I won’t allow her to be a part of my life, it’s just been too much for over 12 years. She’s been in a strict rehab that wouldn’t allow her out or to see family for over a year, it was a great year. We could sleep at night and enjoy my husbands other children.
Now, she has “earned” her car back, that sat at our house, no other family members home, they didn’t even offer. She is visiting her son at her sons fathers home, who is also a nut.
I know what will happen, for a woman who was supposedly traumatized to talk to her former boyfriend or see him, now she’s going to the home she did drugs and drank herself into being a pure mess to visit her son. She will choose to go back, I know her. Her family is so happy, they didn’t live “it” they stayed away, all I can say is, your turn, hold on, I’m out.
I am absolutely struggling with the decision whether to work hard to forgive or to work hard to move on without my husband. After just finding out about his 2+ year meth and cocaine abuse, I am just disgusted, repulsed and disappointed in his choices and danger he has caused our family. Our kids do not deserve this mess. Absolute nightmare. If forgiveness is possible I am not seeing how right now.
Hi Lisa – I’d be happy to talk with you about this (there is no charge). To schedule, please send me an email at LisaF@BreakingTheCycles.com. ~Lisa
Forgiveness is not an entitlement. Nobody owes it to the addict and they must understand thst sometimes “I’m so sorry!” is not going to fix destroyed relationships. I disagree that it was “all” the alcohol! Most alkies also had mental/personality issues that the booze did not cause! Liquor certainly makes them worse, but it is not entirely to blame.
Alcoholics are extraordinarily selfish people. Even sober, they are like petulant children. They want what they want, and wail like spoiled toddlers when those around them refuse to give in. They eagerly seize on the “it was aaalll the alcohol!!!” as an excuse to evade responsibility and manipulate others into caving to their demands. They CHOSE to drink. Certainly there is a point where they cannot stop without help, but the harsh truth is that they decided to start getting zoused in the first place.
Expecting their victims to grant them relatiinships is unfair to those they victimized. Some damage is too great to let go. If they truly feel remorse, good. That they apologized is a good thing. It still doesn’t mean they should get let back in. Do you not realize that “we apologized over and over again” sounds a lot like, okay, I did it – so now open up the door is another manipulation??
The me me me me me me me me me just never quits. How about accepting that you did too much damage! Your family does not owe you anything. Your apologies, insistence that they get therapy sounds like concern, but it’s really about landing what you want.
I left (what passed for) home at 14 after my father came home drunk and beat the crap out of me. My mother did nothimg to stop him, but scurried in to wash my bleeding arms, legs and face, cursimg him all the while. When I asked her why she hadn’t done anything, she looked at me as if I sprouted an extra head. I left that night. 45 years later I still believe I saved my own life that night. After years of nightmares, I realized I wasn’t ok, got therapy and still deal with PTSD.
The rest of my kinfolks protected my parents. They turned vengeful because I told others about the abuse and used the fact that I went to therapy to claim I was mentally ill , a crazy liar and attacking my poor, innocent, devoutly Christian parents for no reason.
Eventually mom died and he decided to get sober. Suddenly everything is just peachy, and nobofy understands why I don’t just get over it, come home, “leave it in the past” and throw my arms around poor dear old dad.
I don’t love my father.
There. I said it.
I have no place in my life for him. Why should I uproot the good life I’ve built, with friends who are closer to me than anybody in my DNA herd ever was? There is no benefit to me in having contact with him or any of the rest of them. None of the memories are good and “but you can make mew good ones!!!” with people I haven’t associated with in years is no incentive. I have nothimg to offer them and see nothing for me that they can give.
But he’s sorry, apologetic, repentant and remorseful, so why won’t I get with the program? He wants his family back! I’m a terrible person (again) because I don’t go along with this.
There is a pointvwhere your insistence is revictimizing us all over again. Why can’t you see that? Well, we can help with that, you ssy. WITH THE END RESULY SO YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT.
Some of you might consider backing off and live by example. If trust was not broken too badly your loved ones may trust you again someday. But you ought be willing to accept that perhaps it won’t. zin any case please stop demonizing and making out to be the villain the people that you damaged. They do not owe you,
I am an addict/alcoholic in recovery.
I have had up to eight years sobriety but I have falling off the wagon several times. Then 3 yrs sober then fall off for 2 weeks etc.
The majority of my drinking was done thousands of miles away from home. I moved back to my home town very successful and bought a home. It was at that point where I had the lapses in my recovery. My family rarely saw me drunk or high. I do not have children nor have I been married. They are suffering from me being an alcoholic/addict. They are hurt, angry and do not want to forgive. Even though there were not many (if any) interactions where they saw me drunk or high. I want to understand their pain and upset. I have done my ammends but I am 60 yrs old now, my parents are in their 90s they forgive me but my 2 sisters have so much contempt for me. I have been in therapy since I was 22. They have never gone to therapy. Can you give me some insight on their pain so I can appropriately say what needs to be said or do what needs to be done.
Thank you
LisaM
Hi LisaM — I am happy to schedule a call with you to answer your question — there is no charge. Please send an email to lisaf@BreakingTheCycles.com to schedule. ~Lisa
I am a survivor of sorts. After 15 years of my husbands alcoholism my husband has been sober going on three years. I had no idea he was an alcoholic as we didn’t live together before marriage and he was good at hiding his addiction. He has a lot of diagnosed neck and back problems and is now medicating with medical marijuana. He is constantly smoking it and it just feels like another addiction. I feel like he gaslights me by saying I’m just always depressed and I don’t know how to be happy. He won’t do counseling. I guess I’m ready to bail out although I do love him.
Your article was the first time I felt someone understood me. Thank you
You’re welcome. You may also find my latest book helpful, “10th Anniversary Edition If You Loved Me, You’d Stop! What you really need to know when your loved one drinks too much
https://www.amazon.com/10th-Anniversary-Loved-Youd-Stop/dp/0981684483
Plenty of us have our lives ruined (in more ways than one) by addicts and will never forgive those people for the damage they’ve caused. It’s not for a lack of understanding a disease, as you claim.
Is my life any less ruined because it was a disease? No. If a drunk driver hit and killed my child, would I let go of my feelings of hurt and resentment if only I “got” that it was a disease?
The recovery community is, unfortunately, quite toxic. I know this from having far too many close relatives in recovery, and a few who have gone on to work in the field.
Addicts need to worry less about forcing forgiveness for their actions and blaming a lack of understanding on their victims when they don’t get what they want. We get it, you have a disease. The damage has been done and the harsh reality is many relationships will never be repaired. Move on. Except they can’t. Because controlling others is the basis for an addict’s relationship to others. When they’ve lost the ability to guilt trip, manipulate and control those around them, they will seek to discredit them. “They don’t get I have a disease”. And yes, even in recovery and even with some sobriety under their belt.
Thank you. I wonder how much personality type figures into substance abuse? My father is a narcissist and the drinking just made it worse. Even sober he was controlling, an abusive parent and considered my mother and siblings and I his property. My mother was an extension of himself and everything she especially did reflected on him. If she didn’t look perfect or say the right things it was punishment time. (Yes, he abused her as “discipline” for not acting as a wife should). He thiught what we did was a reflection of his parenting – win a sports match, good grades – it was all because HE guided and molded us, not our talents.
He’s become a stalker since sobriety and I believe it is because he lost control of us, not just the drinking. Not wantingba relationship with him makes him look like a bad parent, bad person and ruins his status. He can’t have that.
I wonder how many addicts are narvissists, psychpaths or sociopaths?
I’ll be honest, having lived this first hand with my ex, I just feel that we make FAR too many excuses for addicts. We aren’t 10. You KNOW what drugs do, it isn’t a mystery to society, you knew what it does and you STILL CHOSE to pick it up and ruin lives beyond your own. I am doing my utmost best to forgive, but while their life is together as a sober person mine is still in shambles from PTSD of their usage. Five years they took from me and I need to forgive? Sure, i’ll do it for my own healing, but i’ll be damned if they know i forgave them. They need to see the consequences of their actions.
I disagree that we “have” to forgive. Yeah, yeah, yeah…..I heard all the arguments about how it’s supposed to be “for me” (that would be him apologizing first) and how I shouldn’t be angry (we have a RIGHT to be!). They day all this “just hurts me” and all these lectures come from the asshole and his cronies who would getting what they want. Oh, they are SO concerned for our welfare NOW. Notvwhen they were abusing us and often risking our lives! My “parent” used to drive with a beer can between his legs!
No, we don’t “have” to forgive and torture ourselves all over again because we can’t force ourselves to feel something we don’t.
Jane, leave forgiveness up to God. You have been put through enough without being badgered by idiots. They’re dumb and didn’t go through whatvee fid anyway.
I just had HIM arrested for the fourth time for violatingvour protective order. First thing he did after bailing out was havecmy uncle call to say he “forgives” us for it…..,
My sister is almost one year sober. One son speaks to her, one does not. The one that doesn’t has a young son. Our step mother, the only parent we have left, turned her back on her. I am her only support system. I have been on the receiving end of my sister’s addiction, but for the last ten years of her 25 year addiction, I have lived out of state. I have chosen to be my sister’s support system. My parents, including our step mother, enabled my sister her entire life. She never had to do anything for herself. Addiction runs in our family and my brother is an addict as well. Somehow, I am not. Both of my nephews smoke weed, but since it’s “legal”, it’s acceptable. My sister has made great progress and has done amazing things this past year. I know that one year of sobriety doesn’t erase 25 years of anger, but there was never any physical abuse. No DUIs. My nephews gave as much attitude as she did. They learned it from her, I’m sure. But, at what point do we accept that what she is dealing with is an illness that she is getting treatment for and move on? In our family, we don’t have many people left. My nephews won’t even talk to me because I won’t “take” her to live with me. What good would that do? She is finally doing things for herself, on her own and doing well. I understand that my sister caused pain and disruption in their lives, but we don’t live forever and no one is promised tomorrow.